by Lauren Feldman.
According to the University of Minnesota's department of sociology, atheists are identified as America's most distrusted minority – even more so than blacks, gays, or even Muslims. As a Catholic-gone-atheist myself, I didn't know whether I should have been amused or offended by such a ridiculous finding. So this, in essence, isn't so much of an article to convince you to be atheist, but more of a defense of our beliefs (or lack thereof).
Many religious people wonder where we atheists get our morals from, if not from God. Well, in response to that, the reality is quite simple. All children, religious or not, were brought up to abide by one main rule: treat others as you would like to be treated. I wouldn't enjoy being lied to, physically or verbally abused, or harmed in any way – so naturally, I wouldn't commit those acts against others. Just because we never read those rules in the Bible or Koran doesn't mean we weren't any less affected by them – and of course, we don't need usually to be threatened by hell to abide by them. After all, people who are decent and moral for the sole purpose of getting into Heaven aren't very good people after all, are they?
In addition, many religious people (generally Catholics, for this particular example) believe they are the epitome of morality, when they are actually the polar opposite. Sending condoms to Africa is a prime example of this. It is estimated that four million people die form AIDS a year in Africa. To stop the spread of this epidemic, some are sending condoms and other methods of having safe sex to Africa. However, many Catholics passionately oppose this. Since having sex without being married to your partner, or having sex without the intention of reproducing is "sinful," they view protection as inherently evil. No, they wouldn't want the people in Africa to do anything sinful - so they're just going to let them die. I don't define morality as strictly what is written in the Bible; I define it as whatever will benefit society and end the suffering of others. So when religious people are against sending condoms to Africa, stem cell research, or other, similar topics, I am rather disappointed by the irony of their logic. No, I'm not suggesting that theists are evil and atheists and perfect; I'm just asking you to think about your definition of "morality" before condemning the moral values of others.
Atheists are not bad people. We are simply people who need proof in order to believe something.
And lastly, here are some statistics from the Federal Bureau of Prisons:
Christians make up 75% of the US population.
Christians make up 75% of the prison population.
Atheists make up 10% of the US population.
Atheists make up 0.2% of the prison population.
Think about it.
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12 comments:
True that.
I do agree that many atheists are responsible, law-abiding citizens. Just like any person from any religion.
The Catholic church has filled in where the Bible has not overtly spoken on a subject, and some of the offical Catholic positions on various issues are not mentioned in the Bible, but have been interpreted by others...
The point I'm trying to make is that it is very possible for somebody to define morality strictly by the Bible and still be in favor of contraception and such.
"Christians make up 75% of the US population.
Christians make up 75% of the prison population.
Atheists make up 10% of the US population.
Atheists make up 0.2% of the prison population."
I'm unsure exactly what the point is in you posting these stats, but you have taken them out of context. If somebody is in a federal prison, that means they will be doing , for the most part, a long stint.
Thus, the prison population is one of the largest places for people to become born again Christians. (It's also a place where many people find Islam.) So, point me to the stats that state the religious affiliation before a person enters prison, and the stats of how many prison converts you have.....I think you'd be rather surprised.
Of the 75% who are Christians in prison, how many converted while in prison?
(PS...I went to the BOP website and couldn't find where you got that stat. I'm curious myself as to if they do have a stat on conversions. Could you provide a link?)
While I can't find the stats on the BOP website, here are various websites that cited the same statistic:
http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm
http://www.non-religious.com/statistics.html
http://www.adherents.com/misc/adh_prison.html
If you still do not believe me, you can call the BOP to ask. As someone (in the last website I linked) said, "I later called the Federal Bureau of Prisons and confirmed that the data did in fact come from their database."
You do have a point though, and I'll admit that it would be near impossible to document the religious affiliations of prisoners before they actually were prisoners. However, at the time this statistic was documented, roughly 60,000 prisoners were Christian (while about 2,000 were atheist or agnostic), and I find it extremely unlikely that all 60,000 of them converted to Christianity as a result of being imprisoned. The point of me mentioning the statistic was not to "prove" that Christians are immoral and atheists are perfect; it was supposed to show that Christianity does not equal morality and atheism does not equal immorality. The whole point of the article was to explain that atheists aren't necessarily bad people, in the same way theists aren't necessarily good people. And while it is possible to follow the Bible and still support contraception, there is more to Christianity or Catholicism than that book alone. Hence, the paragraph about Catholic morality instead of Biblical morality.
The stats are a little outdated, it was from 1997. I never said I did not believe by the way:)
I found this on one of your websites:
"There is no sociologically valid basis for comparing "theists to nontheists" with regards to incarceration rates (or any other sociological measure) because "theists" do not constitute an identifiable social group."
Does seem interesting...
I too doubt all 60,000 converted while in prison, but since those identifying thenmselves as "Christian" make up the majority of the population, is it not likely that they make up the a large part of the prison population?
Christianity, in my interpretation of it, does equal morality when it is practiced as it ought to be.....the practicing of it, or lack thereof, by people is what makes immoral.
Atheism is much the same. Theological differences aside, Atheism in its purest form is not immoral...what makes it immoral are acts done by people.
Kinda like stupid is as stupid does...
On a side note, I find it interesting that you chose two articles and single out Christianity both times.
I'd much rather debate the actual point of this article than the statistic I cited (which was only meant to reinforce said point). However, I suppose I'll humor you...
While the statistic is from 1997, it was the most recent I could find (and if you can find a more recent one, please let me know), but I don't think it's "outdated," as our culture hasn't exactly changed much over the past ten years.
Yes, that quote is interesting, but I don't think anyone can deny that many, many people seem to think that religion is the epitome of morality. Consequentially, many believe that atheists are automatically immoral, sinful people. This is not the case, and that was all I was really trying to point out in this article.
At face value, it would make sense for Christians to make up the majority of the prison population, as they do the country's population. However, as I said before, many think that a belief in God automatically means you are a moral person; though clearly, this is untrue. Of course it ultimately comes down the individual, not their religion, and I agree with you there. But again, this article was meant to show that society's perception of religion and morality is very, very inaccurate.
And I don't have anything against Christians (if that is what you were implying). I was actually raised Catholic. I simply felt the need to make Shirley Phelps-Roper and her agenda more well-known, as I personally find it both ridiculous and dangerous - although, if she were of another religion, I would have written close to the same thing. And it only seemed natural for me to continue writing about something I happen to be passionate about: religion. This article wasn't an attack on Christianity; it was a defense on atheism. Christians were simply used as an example because, as you said, they make up the majority of our country's population. If you would like me to include an example about, say, Islam in my next religion article, I'd be more than happy to do that for you...
In most statistical studies a 10 year old stat is considered outdated, but I digress...
It is agreed that athiests are not all immoral, just like "all" of pretty much most groups are not immoral.
"This article wasn't an attack on Christianity; it was a defense on atheism"
Well, when you point out the immoralities of another religion(or group) to prove how moral athiests are that seems like fallacious reasoning, as the actions of another group have no bearing on yours. Instead focus on the moral aspects of athiesm, I don't feel you need to point out faults in others to make your point....just makes you look bad.
Well, you can write what you want...but what I find outrageous is the Muslim world essentially condoning murder...you'd think that would be considered immoral by all.
Well, let's examine the logic of those who believe atheists are immoral. Their though process probably resembles something like this:
"Atheists are immoral because they don't believe in God."
Simple, right? But of course, that implies that theists are moral. And this obviously isn't necessarily the case, hence my examples about Christianity. Also, this article was directed at people who do have hold that belief, so showing them that their side isn't flawless (which is what "theists are moral" automatically implies) seemed like a pretty logical thing to do. I don't think stating that makes me look "bad"...
Don't get me wrong; I feel that anyone who murders others (especially in the name of a religion) is obviously immoral. But I really don't see what you're bringing up Islam for. I used Christianity as an example not because it is the most "immoral" of all religions, but simply because the majority of our population is in fact Christian. Islam and terrorism is a different debate entirely - one that isn't related to atheist morality. But I can tell that it's clearly something you're quite passionate about, so my advice would be to write an article about that, instead of trying to incorporate it into unrelated topics.
I brought up Islam because the morality of it is in the news daily. It does not relate directly to athiest morality, and neither does incorporating the actions of Christians :)
Prove athiest morality by explaining how, not pointing to how immoral another religion is...that is pure fallacy, Tu Quoque I believe.
By stating Christians are in jail does not make atheist moral, that is ignorant logic.
The actions of Christians do not relate directly to atheist morality, but it certainly relates to the pre-conceived notion that Christians are moral simply because they believe in God - and that was a big point I was trying to make. I could very well have replaced my Christianity example with an Islam one, and it would have achieved the same purpose (though it may have been less effective, since I want this article to affect the majority, and the majority is Christian).
And I believe I did both prove atheist morality as well as disprove the assumption that theists are moral BECAUSE they are theist. Since all who disagree with the point I was making are theist, it would obviously make sense to cast a shadow of doubt on their self-righteous certainty that their way is the only moral way. I never suggested that the immorality of Christians automatically make atheists moral.
I understand your point, it was just ill conceived....
The Atheists will burn in hell without the belief in Our Good Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! Repent before The Apocalypse occurs! 'Tis sinful hubris that do not believe in the Creator and His Son, and this will only lead to eternal damnation in the inner circles of Hell.
I love you.
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